Seems like me and OneFingerSalute posted thread on this week's study just about 5 minutes apart. lol. Here is OneFingerSalute's discussion of this week's study
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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If you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of Watchtower and JWs in general ...
by Island Man inif you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of watchtower and jws in general then i'm sure this week's watchtower study (week of june 15-21, 2015) completely obliterated such doubts.
the study article (watchtower april 15, 2015, page 19: how real is your relationship with jehovah?
) was filled with blatantly fallacious reasoning that were outdone only by the more fallacious reasoning on the part of commenting jws.. the article, in paragraph 2, says this about a relationship with jehovah:.
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Observations About Today's WT Indoctrination
by OneFingerSalute inthis mornings wt was pretty amazing in it's totally asinine application of the term "relationship".. it started right off the bat asserting that jehovah is only interested in a relationship with "you" after "you" put forth the effort to get close to him.
par 14 said to be specific in prayer so you could see "subtle" answers.
par 15 then directly contradicted par.
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Island Man
I just started a thread on this very subject. But yours covers more paragraphs than mine. I became exasperated with Watchtower's stupidity by paragraph 5. lol. If you don't mind, I'll put a link to this thread on mine. -
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If you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of Watchtower and JWs in general ...
by Island Man inif you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of watchtower and jws in general then i'm sure this week's watchtower study (week of june 15-21, 2015) completely obliterated such doubts.
the study article (watchtower april 15, 2015, page 19: how real is your relationship with jehovah?
) was filled with blatantly fallacious reasoning that were outdone only by the more fallacious reasoning on the part of commenting jws.. the article, in paragraph 2, says this about a relationship with jehovah:.
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Island Man
If you had any doubts about the pitifully poor mental prowess of Watchtower and JWs in general then I'm sure this week's Watchtower study (week of June 15-21, 2015) completely obliterated such doubts. The study article (Watchtower April 15, 2015, page 19: How Real Is Your Relationship With Jehovah?) was filled with blatantly fallacious reasoning that were outdone only by the more fallacious reasoning on the part of commenting JWs.
The article, in paragraph 2, says this about a relationship with Jehovah:
How real is your personal relationship with Jehovah? Would you like to strengthen it? James 4:8 tells you how you can do that: "Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you." Note that this is a two-way process. * [footnote: A relationship has been defined as the way two individuals feel and behave toward each other. Thus, both are actively involved.] As we take steps to draw close to God, he takes reciprocating action toward us. This interaction, frequently repeated, progressively strengthens our relationship with Jehovah. As a result, that relationship becomes very real to us.
The article then goes on to say in subsequent paragraphs that individual worshipers communicate with Jehovah through prayer. Now bearing in mind the point in the footnote highlighted above, how does Jehovah communicate with the worshiper - how is he actively involved in the communication aspect of the relationship? Paragraph 3 says:
And you allow Jehovah to talk to you, as it were, when you regularly read his written Word and meditate on it.
"Allow" Jehovah to talk to you - "as it were" ?!!! Oh the idiocy! Jehovah is actively involved by doing absolutely nothing! The worshiper does all the work! What kind of a relationship is that? Aren't both parties supposed to be actively involved in order for there to be a relationship? And yet Watchtower is essentially contradicting itself by showing that the worshiper is the one actually doing all the work.
By way of comparison, imagine a mother with 2 children whose father live far away and whom they have never seen or spoken to orally. The mother tells the children that their father loves them and provide for them. The mother shows them a letter that the father wrote to the family as a whole years ago before the children were even born and which does not refer to the mother or any of the children by name. She encourages the children to write to their father regularly to an address she gave them, but the father never, ever responds directly to any of their letters. To get his response, the mother claims, they have to read the original letter he wrote to the family years ago and meditate on how it applies to them individually. Now, who in their right mind would claim that this father is having a close relationship with his children?
And in this whole process of the worshiper talking to Jehovah and imagining that Jehovah responds to him, "as it were", when he reads the bible, the worshiper comes to develop a relationship with Jehovah? The relationship becomes real to him? You don't say! Who would have thought that someone could ever delusionally grow to regard an imaginary friend as being real due to regular repetition of behavior designed to reinforce the delusion? Such a thing could never happen, right? LOL.
Look at the utter idiocy of paragraph 5:
For example, read and meditate on Jesus' words to "stop storing up for yourselves treasures on the earth." If you feel that you are already focusing your life on Kingdom interests, you sense Jehovah's commendation. On the other hand, if you see a need to simplify your life and to focus more on Kingdom interests, Jehovah has alerted you to an area where you can work at drawing closer to him. - Matt 6:19,20.
"If you feel", "if you see"? So let me get this straight: Jehovah's communication to individual JWs is actually the individual JW's own imperfect and fallible feelings about his own "spirituality" in light of what he reads? So Jehovah speaks to the individual JW by the individual JW listening to his own treacherous and imperfect heart? This is utter . . . I'm at a loss for words. Let's expose the idiocy of this paragraph by just changing a few words:
For example, read and meditate on Jesus' words to "stop storing up for yourselves treasures on the earth." If you [are self-sparing and imagine in your heart] that you are already focusing your life on Kingdom interests, you [can imagine in your heart] Jehovah's commendation. On the other hand, if you [are unbalanced and overzealous and thus imagine] a need to simplify your life and to focus more on Kingdom interests, Jehovah has alerted you to an area where you can work at drawing closer to him. - Matt 6:19,20.
So Jehovah is reduced to being just a sock-puppet controlled by the peculiar, imperfect disposition and inclination of the individual JW. Way to go Watchtower! You're certainly revealing your great wisdom and insight - not!!
Paragraph 12 and 13 reveals more idiotic fallacious reasoning where they try to discount the fact that prayer is purely a psychological phenomenon by pointing to Jesus apparent conviction that his Father heard his prayers - which is recorded in the same book that promotes prayers! Talk about appeal to emotion (conviction) and circular reasoning! By such idiotic reasoning, if you meet a man who is utterly convinced that he has an invisible friend who listens to all that he says then that man must truly have such an invisible friend listening to him, right? Because why would he have that conviction if it weren't true? lol.
And lets not forget to mention that idiotic fallacious reasoning often brought out in comments that Jehovah answers prayers by the printing of Watchtower articles that addresses the specific problems that individual JWs have. Chee, with 8 million JWs worldwide, what are the odds that some will be suffering from depression, or marital problems, or anxiety, or [insert illness or problem that is bound to exist in a pool of 8 million people, here]? Furthermore, what are the odds that Watchtower will decide to write an article on such a issue given its existence? And given that all JWs receive all Watchtower literature, what are the odds that some JWs somewhere is going to get an articles that happens to address his particular problem? JWs have go to be some of the most mindless people on the planet!
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Fair warning-Image (avatar) change
by fulltimestudent intime for an image change - hence a new avatar..
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Island Man
You dog, you!
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Island Man
JW Discussion in the Park - How Can I Get Eternal Life?
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About 1914 ??
by Powermetal4ever indont know if this has been up before, but i just happened to see it today.
its from the book "a study guide for god's word" which came last year if i am not mistaken.
anyway.... what is the deal with "about 1914 c.e" ??
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Island Man
It's my speculation that they could possibly issue new light saying it's impossible to know exactly when Satan was cast out of heaven. They might say that we only know Jesus was enthroned in October 1914 but we can't know exactly how long after this (in human chronological terms) he was cast out, because humans perceive time differently to spirit creatures in heaven and what could seem to Satan and Michael like a battle of a few hours. could be experienced as months or years on the human time scale.
Perhaps they will say that WWI approximately coincides with the war in heaven between Michael and Satan and that the heavenly war perhaps explains the outbreak of WWI - Satan was so preoccupied with Jesus imminent enthronement and the heavenly battle that immediately ensued that he was too busy to effectively oversee his earthly kingdom, resulting in a temporary state of global turmoil that we know as WWI.
They will say that they love this new teacing and that it makes sense because WWI started in late July while Jesus was clearly enthroned in October, therefore WWI clearly could not have been the result of Satan's ouster since he was ousted soon after Jesus' enthronement - on or after October, and not late July when WWI actually started.
Whatever the case, the fact that they put Satan's ouster as "about 1914" clearly indicates that a new light bulb is about to be unveiled by GB 2.0.
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It came in today's mail
by Virgochik init came today, the dreaded envelope containing my personal copy of "return to jehovah" from my elderly, desperate mother.
it included a small note asking me to read it over and to let her know what i think.
she got it at her assembly.. firstly, i'm angry that she continues to push her religion on me, given that i stopped attending meetings over thirty years ago, and very offended that she assumes that i still want to be a witness, which is her choice of religion, not mine.
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Island Man
Whenever you speak to your Mother, discuss anything besides religion. Redirect the conversation to
family life
Virgochick: So how's aunt X doing?
Virgochick's Mom: She is having a tough time with her two boys. They are so rebellious. You know, if only she took the Truth seriously all those problems could have been avoided. Jehovah's organization has given us so many wonderful publications to improve our family life. When we do things Jehovah's way it always turns out well for us. But when we don't . . .
tv shows
Virgochick: So Mom, have you been watching any interesting TV shows lately?
Virgochick's Mom: Oh yes. I've been looking at the best TV shows out there - the shows on JW broadcasting. Do you know the society now has its own tv channel? They have wonderful monthly programs hosted by a member of the Governing Body. They are so very encouraging! Have you seen them? You should go to jw.org and you'll see a link on there somewhere, I don't know exactly how to get to it - but I watch them at the kingdom hall every month.
movies
Virgochick: Seen any good movies?
Virgochick's Mom: Yes, I recently saw 'Return of the prodigal son'. That was such a wonderful movie. That was produced by the society, you know. Can you imagine, Virgochick, they're now making movies! Jehovah's chariot is certainly moving ahead! Those not with the chariot are certainly missing out on a lot . . .
books
Virgochick: Read any good books?
Virgochick's Mom: But of course, sweetie. You of all persons should know that Jehovah's Witnesses are the reading-est people on the planet! What with all the magazines and other publications the society provides for our spiritual nourishment on a regular basis. A good one I read recently is called 'Return to Jehovah'. I'll be sure to mail you a copy . . .
politics
Virgochick: what do you think of Hilary Clinton's chances of winning in 2016?
Virgochick's Mom: Whether she wins or loses matters not to me. All I know is that God's Kingdom is the only hope to solve man's problems and no system of government - be it autocracy, democracy, communism, socialism, sharia law, ISIS or feminocracy - can ever solve man's problems!
world events, news
Virgochick: What do you think about what ISIS is doing in the middle east?
Virgochick's Mom: Oh they're terrible! Slaughtering men women and children, fomenting warfare - and they have the gall to claim they're doing God's will! Can you imagine Jehovah ever instructing his worshipers to commit such horrible atrocities? But what do you expect from Babylon the Great! Those evil people are proof positive that we must be living deep in the time of the end. It is inconceivable that Jehovah will allow this evil system to go on much longer. You really need to return to Jehovah, Virgochick, while there is still time . . .
jokes games, entertainment, gossip, music, work, exercise, health... Whatever you would talk about with a Non-JW friend.
Virgochick: Wow Mom, look how late it is already! My how time flies! It's been so nice talking to you but I must leave now . . .
Virgochick's Mom: But Sweety, we haven't yet talked about jokes, games, gossip, music, work, exercise, health . . . whatever you would talk about with your non-JW friends . . .
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John 21:23 a new argument for JW's regarding false prophecy promoted being OK
by ILoveTTATT2 ini want as many minds put into this as possible.. there is a new argument among the extreme jw apologists, saying that even the disciples promoted mistakes.
they base themselves on john 21:23. keep in mind, i am not a believer but i want the answer from a believer's standpoint, please.. .
nwt:.
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Island Man
I agree with the refutative points you made near the end of your OP. One other point I would add is that this error started before christians were anointed with holy spirit - the "spirit of the truth" - which Jesus said will guide them into all the truth. In contrast, Watchtower errors have always been promulgated by Watchtower leaders professing to be anointed with holy spirit. So Watchtower's comparison of its own errors with that of John 21:23 is not valid. -
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Are atheists more likely to be morally good than Christians?
by FusionTheism ini have no problem saying atheists and christians are equal.. but some people seem to have the belief that atheists are more likely to be morally good, or more likely to change the world for good, than christians and theists.. but what evidence do you have to support this claim?.
if atheism is what causes people to do great positive things for the world, then why weren't martin luther king, jr., william wilberforce, isaac newton, francis collins, barack obama, mother theresa, abraham lincoln, or john f. kennedy atheists?.
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Island Man
Yes, and here's why:
1. Christianity teaches some immoral tenets which christians are duty bound to accept in the name of "trusting in the Lord/Jehovah with all your heart and not leaning on your own understanding". Christian morality is rooted in the concept of unquestioning obedience to authority of scripture. Whatever scripture says has to be accepted as right even if the conscience chafes at it. Christians will often justify following immoral tenets that are counter-intuitive to the conscience by saying something along the lines of man being sinful and/or limited in understanding so we should not put too much stock in our own moral sense, i.e. just because shunning seems cruel doesn't mean its not the right thing to do. God knows better than our fallen, imperfect consciences.
Atheists, however, are free to follow their conscience and don't have to engage in immoral behavior that is counter-intuitive to the conscience. Atheists don't have to jump through hoops to defend the bible's immoral position of condoning slavery.
2. Christianity attracts lots of sycophants. Because christianity holds out the reward of everlasting life if you're good and eternal destruction or torment if you're bad, many christians are not good for goodness sake. They're only good to get a reward and avoid a punishment. By contrast, atheists are good with pure motives. They like doing the right thing. They're not doing the right thing to gain an eternal reward or avert their destruction. Unlike the morally clueless JWs who return lost money to create an opportunity to shamelessly plug their religion, an atheist would return lost money because he genuinely cared about the owner - not because he's thinking of plugging an ideology.or religion.
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Disturbing hidden image in w15 04/15 page 9 (Not DF image)
by campaign of hate incould someone do me a favor and post the picture on page 9 on the above mentioned watchtower.. i'll point it out, very surprised no one else has picked up on this creepy image..
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Island Man
"I can buy the disgruntled/bored artists idea, but beyond that I can't see what the point would be.
Unless someone can propose a scientific answer as to why the WT would put in images of a bloke lying on the ground?"Exactly! It makes no sense whatsoever when you spend a little time to think about it. It only makes sense to the Subliminal Image Conspiracy Kook Oriented.